There are so many things to like about Uruguay that the “unlikable” things really jump out.
While I am finally safely ensconced in my new home/office in Buceo, the Copperhead is almost homeless. Despite the valiant efforts of a really good realtor, recommended by Deb (and who will be on our recommended list when our offices reopen), the Copperhead has twice in a row been shafted by unscrupulous landlords at the last minute after going to the time and expense of getting together all the pointless paperwork they wanted before renting the apartment. The first landlord rented the apartment to someone else who paid a year in advance after already promising it to Copperhead. The second one upped the price at the last minute because their daughter, who had just come home from Switzerland, told them that Americans should pay more. In both cases, the landlords backed out, or changed the deal AFTER an agreement had been reached and the Copperhead had gotten together the paperwork they required.
In my case, I love my new house, but it is obvious that the landlord lied through her teeth on many issues. Almost every one of my wooden roll down shutters requires attention, there are plumbing problems, and the electrical sockets have been so cheaply installed that when you unplug a light, the wall socket comes out in your hand.
After an knockdown drag out, no holds barred contract negotiation, which even included an inventory of the number and type of plants in the back garden, the landlord had the gall to say, “you should learn to trust people more”, after I caught her in at least three bald faced lies!
This again illustrates why I give the strong advice that I do, not to buy any real estate for the first year or two! Renting is a lot of trouble, but has a clearly limited downside. When you are buying and have not had the time and leisure to check out every angle yourself and through a trusted attorney and again through a trusted escribano (civil law notary), you could be buying a black hole that just eats up money for years to come.
My recommendation for buying or renting is to work simultaneously through or with multiple realtors and owners and then take the first acceptable deal that you can complete. I wouldn’t worry about wasting the time of the other people, because save for rare exceptions they will have no problem wasting your time.
The bottom line is this: A) don’t make any assumptions; B) don’t believe anything anyone says without complete and current supporting documentation; C) make sure that you understand what is meant any time you are told, “that is the usual way it is done here”; and, D) remember, nothing is agreed to until everything is agreed to, and signed, sealed and delivered.
To end on a positive note, once you finally get in your home and get the initial repairs completed you should enjoy smooth sailing and should not be troubled by any outside interference. In a way is very much like living in the old frontier–it takes a heck of a lot of work to get set up, but after that, people leave you alone. For me, that makes all the hassle worth it, at least in retrospect…
Hi David-I like that you tell it like it is and don’t paint everything with a 100% rosy paint brush like some people. Excellent website.
Left by suomiamerican on December 27th, 2006
Definitely check things like doorknobs and light outlets like David mentions here–after renting only about 50% of our doorknobs remain in tact and the plastic covers on electrical outlets are very prone to falling off. It probably sounds like our house is a dump–quite the contrary, it’s a nice place but those are just details that we didn’t check out that we should have…
Again, like David mentioned, it really is great once you’re settled in. We couldn’t be more pleased with the experience of living here overall.
Left by marcus on December 28th, 2006
as the southron points out, renting is a quite the nightmare compared with the US experience, however still preferable to buying right out the gate, imo.
renting:
as southron points out, your downside is easily caculable and i can’t think of any situation where it would be greater than buying poorly.
i’ve been very lucky to have a good realtor and great landlord/owner, but it is still a bit tedious.
we chose to rent a furnished apt. and the detail of the inventory got a little silly (number of teaspoons, etc)
our realtor’s assistant expressed dismay when we were signing the contract because she realized that she had forgot to measure a painting in our home and include the measurements in the inventory. the painting apparently was painted by a famous Uruguayan artist and relatively expensive.
elegant subtlty not being a strong-suit, i flat laughed in her face and couldn’t stop laughing to save myself….took me about 5 minutes to even think how this could be relevant….was i going to cut half the painting, resell it and reframe the remainder???
i *guess* that i could have potentially bought a cheaper, smaller painting by the same artist, resold at retail (yeah right) the existing and pocketed the difference…..anyways, pretty absurd….southron telling of the plant inventory rings absolutely true to form.
buying:
while there are some (seemingly) great deals to be had, i am put off by the fact that the transaction process is different here. I’m told “that is how it’s done here”, but that’s not good enough for me.
what do i mean?
realtors are consistently trying to get both the buyer’s and the sellers commission.
if i could find a buyers agent (rare) i’m at all certain that they are common enough that the contractual legal protections in place to give me recourse if i find out my buyer’s agent didn’t sell me out.
got into some lengthy discussions/arguments with realtors explaining that i didn’t give a flying hoot what their “norm” was, there was no way in “heck” i was going to engage in a 6 figure transaction without someone versed in the laws of the land representing me, and only me.
in the states, as you all know i’m sure, realtors (not under buyers agent contracts) are legally obligated to look out for the best interests of the *seller* not the buyer.
of course, it benefits them greatly to get both sides of the transaction so there doesn’t seem to be any immediate energy being expended to irradicate this ‘tradition’.
as i tried to explain to the realtor, “you can’t be on both sides of the (negotiating) table at one time”.
they counter with, “i just bring people together”
but, let’s face it, if they are interested in:
1.) first and foremost, a transaction of some kind happening
2.) protecting their seller
3.) presumably their fellow Uruguayans with whom they have history more than some “rich” foreigner
your chances of learning the hidden costs of uruguayan home ownership BEFORE you buy are pretty slim.
I’m cynical enough to believe that in any realestate transaction, the transaction costs are so high that you are going to get screwed regardless…even WITH a buyers agent. But, that doesn’t mean one should bring their own grease!
ciao,
fuBarrio
>>>This comment was sent directly to the Southron instead of being posted–but it bears reading, so I have added it here. –The Southron:
Hi Southron: Fubario points out a dismal experience with Uruguayan real estate people. I’ve had great experience and terrible too. The best was when I bought my house in Punta del Este. The bottom line is that I got a great deal on the house, which was being sold by a motivated seller. The terrible part was when I used a different local agent in Punta del Este to rent out the house I purchased. It was a disaster. Now I have a different rental agent who is very good, works hard at it, and I am very happy. So the quality of servicve does vary quite a bit from agent to agent. But I think it does vary a lot all over the world, even in the US, when it comes to real estate agents. I have dealt in real estate in the UK , France, the US, and now Uruguay. The buyer never must buy, so the willingness to walk away without a purchase can be a strong negotiating point, and to get independant real estate advice in Uruguay, hire your notaire first before looking for a real estate agent. The notaire should be on YOUR side because YOU are paying him, unlike the real estate agent who does get a commission from the seller (as well as you). he can advise you on a good real estate agent for you. To select a good notaire who speaks English try getting a list from the US Embassy in Montevideo. Finally, if dealing in real estate in a foreign country drives you up a wall, then it is probably best to stick to real estate in your home country where you know the drill. As for me, when thinking about living or investing in a foreign country, you have to take the bad with the good, and always understand that things are different, and an alternative would be to stay home.
Left by fubarrio on December 28th, 2006
I am somewhat surprised by the complaints and criticisms I read that folks are experiencing in renting and buying property, as well as other transactions. This forum has proven quite valuable and helpful, but it is also quite revealing.
I am moved to comment especially on the remarks of fuBarrio, which tend to reflect and put into one post similar remarks made elsewhere.
Renting: I have not rented so I do not have the experience to make long comments. But my observation as to what different people have encountered, especially the long inventory that is made of household and garden items, does not seem too our of line to me. If one rents a furnished home, and especially one if nicely furnished with valuable items, a full and complete inventory up front seems to me that in the end – when one is terminating the rental and moving on – they will be glad there is such an inventory so that prolonged disputes and unfair costs on the persons renting are avoided. It is protection for both parties. At least I hope it works this way.
Buying
I have bought an apartment. Based on my experience, the realtors were fair and upfront. In no way did I expect the real estate process in Uruguay to be modified so that it reflects how things are done in the United States. I would not expect this if I were buying in France, Argentina, Japan, etc. Certainly Uruguay cannot have hundreds of real estate processes so that there is one for nationals of each country in the world.
The belief fuBarrio expressed about USA buyers’ agents is spurious. That system, which is fairly recent, does not always work as envisioned. There are very, very few buyer’s agents only; that is, agents who never sell property. Another theme expressed in the post is that the real estate process in USA is the same everywhere in that country and all is just fine. The process varies by state, county, and municipality. There are a few FHA required forms that are standard; but these of course are tinkered with locally and filled out sometimes with slanted information so the buyer is misled.
I need not go on with that particular topic. But just to emphasize that buying property is tricky anywhere and buyer beware.
Now, in buying in Uruguay, a person should have a minimum of two agents. Secondly the buyer should tell the agents up front that the buyer does not want to see property, in most cases, that are part of the agents’ inventory (you create a “buyer’s agent by default). Of course, if the agent has a property that falls within the requirements of the buyer, then by all means check it out, but cautiously. The buyer, lets say someone from the USA, will want certain forms filled out prior to making an offer. These forms might not exist here, but one can easily create them in a spread sheet and have the agent help you fill in the data, such as full price, commissions, taxes, settlement expenses, etc. Share this with both your agent and the agent that is offering the property, and to the escribano/a. Make sure everyone understands this what you expect when you sign the document to buy the property.
Also make a form that projects annual expenses and get it filled in – taxes, condo fees (if in a condo), utilities, other recurring expenses, etc. And, require that your agent provide sales information on recent properties in the area you are buying and that the property is similar to the one you are intending to buy. While these things are not a formal part of how real estate is done here, one can do them on their own and require input. There are other steps too.
Thus, by doing it this way, you work comfortably and within the process here – you don’t fight it – and also add/modify on your own where you want more information, etc., and get that information.
Tell your agents this is how you plan to work. For me it went extremely smoothly. I have owned my condo for only 2 years with no problems, so I am assuming it all worked fine. I have to bet that every person reading this who has bought property in their own country has not always been fully and completely happy and satisfied with the process and results; but sometimes one is. Give the process/system here a fair try and don’t fight it - join in and make it work for you.
Oh, at the very end as I was about to say “I will buy it” we negotiated reduced commissions for all parties, simply and easily. I did not expect this, but it was a nice thing to happen.
dangog
Left by dangog on December 30th, 2006
To be fully protected when buying, you need to hire an escribano (notary) who will research and review all the documentation, and will explain the various costs. The buyer pays most of the commissions and fees. (It is not like the US, where the realtors commission is deducted from the amount the seller receives.) Another difference is that the closing costs are much lower for both buyer and seller.
As a rule of thumb, the buyer should plan on adding 5 percent to the price to cover all the various costs. The seller has to pay a sales tax based on the town´s assessed valuation and 2 or 3 percent to the selling broker (negotiable). If you sell an apartment, and the portero of the building has found the buyer, then the commission paid by the seller to the portero can be half of what the realtor charges.
Left by sammyl on September 16th, 2007