Since starting this blog I have begin to make friends with a number of people who have benefited from it and either have moved or are moving here.
In the course of our discussions, we have come up with a series of ideas that could be beneficial both to Expats moving here, or think of moving here, and at the same time, help develop the local economy and make it more open for tourism, immigration and investments.
I realize this is a very shy group who are very much afraid to express their opinions, but I am hoping that this one time, you will force yourself to come out of your shell and let me know what you think. (Your advice on topics to be included in the upcoming Uruguay Living book have been very helpful).
These are some of the ideas under discussion:
The organization of a Sociedad Southron (Southron Society) which would sponsor social events at least monthly both for Expats AND for locals who want to meet expats. (Years ago a similar organization was created in Costa Rica and for many years it was extremely influential in matters of immigration policy there.)
The establishment of a Guardian Angel bi-lingual helper service composed of locals, vetted by UruguayLiving.com, who could be hired by the hour or the day, to go with Expats and help them turn on utilities, find properties, enroll in schools, go to doctors, or anything else required. (We can't very well call them escorts, can we? This IS a family blog!) We are also investigating the possibility of offering this service via cellphone as well.
The formation of a Preferred Professionals Roster of service providers that has been vetted by UruguayLiving.com.
The compilation of a Warning List or Expat Better Business Bureau to protect new residents from businesses and individuals who have proved themselves to be unreliable or worse.
The creation of a directory of places where English is spoken. This has already been started in a very small way from this blog with our English Speaking Taxi Drivers listing. This would continually be expanded until it covers the entire range of services required. We have even created a logo that can be displayed by both companies and persons registered with the program and vetted by UruguayLiving.com.
Other ideas will suggest themselves as we go on.
WHAT DO YOU THINK? WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE DONE?
Sound good to me. I would suggest keeping the events simple and reservation-free so mingling and talking can be maximized.
Left by Jack on September 8th, 2006
Excellent!Perfect logo, too.I’ve got my credit card right here.Are operators standing by to take membership calls?
Left by Peter4 on September 8th, 2006
What do I think? Hmmm. I think it’s all an admirable idea. And for personal (and highly selfish) reasons I don’t like it! Why? Because once these things are all implimented Uruguay will be less “broken” and I’m coming in many ways because I WANT to be in just such a broken place! Potholes and pitfalls and having to use your noggen to get around. And I want a place on this earth to escape selfish americans, who tend to micromanage the soul out of life and leave us with a bland, blah world. I want a place where I’ll have my PATIENCE TESTED as a filter or a test to make sure that Uruguay remains a nation of famously patient (and ultimately peaceful) people. I don’t want Uruguay to turn into Costa Rica and ultimately the United States. (I’m not saying however that someone in a wheelchair shouldn’t try to see about getting his lot improved a little) but I think you can get the “gist” of what I’m getting at, right? Also, ? want a place where I can speak spanish ALL DAY, EVERY DAY, and revel in the alternate point of view it offers in life as opposed to living life in English. Words have a way of shaping our perception of reality, of coloring the way we “naturally” tend to look at things. And the thing I love about being immersed in a wholely spanish speaking environment is that other point of view. It’s important. I’m not so crazy about the idea of people setting up engish speaking colonies and societies down there. I’ve seen it in southern spain and it’s downright UGLY. The good news for you non spanish speakers is that Spanish ISN’T CHINESE. But it’s WEAK to go down there and just go hopping from one english speaking island to another instead of LEARNING AND USING SPANISH! I certainly dont’ feel like hanging around with a bunch of americans when I come, no way!!! Especially when they don’t even want to get along in Spanish! What a joke! (I’m laughing right now) It’s rediculous. Why come? That’s pretty funny.disclaimer: I realize that sound a little callous, we all like to get up on our soapbox/higstool, and I’m no exception. Of course everyone has there own reasons for going where they go and I can respect that. It’s easy to let the bravado gush out in the privacy of your own home and with no real faces to look at. But it is ultimamately how I feel.
Left by Javier Anderson on September 8th, 2006
Sounds like a great idea.
Left by Enzo on September 8th, 2006
Hi,I thing this initiative is brilliant.From my experience – I might suggest a couple of things.As for the business side – how about a chamber of commerce type of thing (a new name would need to be found). Trade commissions (from individual countries) would normally have a commercial attaché, however, for many reasons, some people do not approach them, language, shyness etc. If one needs to do business locally and abroad, then it would be excellent to have a centre that congregates different people’s experience, ideas etc. The different embassies could be invited to provide talks, services etc. You could get speakers, local, visitors etc. You would simply need some staff that could retain the knowledge (record and access it to pass it on). The key for this and any other service, is the people involved and how dynamic they might be.As far as all the other service, may I simply suggest that the people involved need to be genuinely pleasant. I have come across many Gringos abroad that smell like con artists. Especially the travel agents/real-estate foreigners. One gets the impression that they will rip you off if you talk to them for too long. Also, a maximum fee should be strongly urged for people to respect. I say this, because in Morocco, where the new arriving foreigners would find things so cheap that they would overpay, thus making it quite confusing and unpleasant for everyone else.Just one other observation – what ever you do, may I suggest that it is done in a form of a network – not individual little service silos. So, the way the organisation is conceived and structured, let it be strongly connected and very horizontal. In this way you will get many synergies, all those ideas you have not dreamed of yet will simply emerge and the solutions at the same time (people to provide them) due to the organic nature of the enterprise.By the way – I saw the movie – Good night and good luck last night – strongly recommend it!Good luck.
Left by Rui Martins on September 8th, 2006
Hmm. Maybe too much early morning bravado in my previous post, perhaps a bit over the top. Identifying crap organizations and taxi drivers to avoid seems quite noble actually…Anyway this has been good fun reading and responding to these various posts. Cheers all-j
Left by Javier Anderson on September 9th, 2006
And now I feel really foolish having written that after finding that GREAT LINK you posted from uruguayan girl. It’s fab! Cheers and thanks for the flexibility! ;>)Peace!j
Left by javier Anderson on September 9th, 2006
I think these are excellent ideas. I believe the name and address of the American Consulate in Uruguay and any English newspapers or bilingual (English and Spanish) newspapers should be included.Other important items would be churches and temples of all faiths, some of which may be conducted in English.
Left by Sheila Beers on September 9th, 2006
All sound like excellent ideas. No suggestions; you seem to have covered all the bases.
Left by Merlin on September 9th, 2006
You have some great ideas. Expanding on your Guardian Angel idea — how about a language exchange service? I have an Uruguayan friend who I met over the Internet. When I move to Montevideo next month (from Seattle, WA, USA) we’re planning to help each other with our respective languages. I speak some Spanish (I lived in Miami for many years and in Colombia for a year) but having a local to help with Uruguayan Spanish will be invaluable. A service that matches foreigners with Uruguayans would be beneficial for both parties. The locals can learn English, German, French, etc. and the immigrant would learn Spanish. It would also be great way to learn of each other’s cultures and to make new friends.You have an awesome blog going here. I just stumbled across it a few days ago and it’s really helped to reinforce my decision to move to Uruguay.
Left by MichaelB on September 9th, 2006
Ready when you are..! Sounds great!
Left by Neil on September 9th, 2006
great idea !!!!would love to actually see this implemented and to participate… i am currently living in the US but, intend to visit Uruguay in 2007 such that my Peruvian wife and i can make retirement decisions…..
Left by Joe Hervey on September 9th, 2006
All great ideas, but how would these services be rendered or provided? It would be great if it were some type of wiki where the community could collaborate on each of these areas and provide feed back or tips. The more sharing of information between this community would be a benefit to us all. Maybe a forum would be beneficial as well to allow more dialog between readers.A new service or web site could handle all of these needs, or it could be added features to this site. 1. Event calendar / Society get together or other important dates. 2. Guardian Angel: bi-lingual helper service. This could ideally be a listing of people, per hour costs, with contact infomration. Allowing the community and members to rate and give feed back on the service they received. This feed back and ratings would really act as a living BBB. 3. Preferred Professionals Roster: almost the same as above, ability for the community to add people/resources to a list and then comment and rate them. 4. Warning List (Expat Better Business Bureau): same as above, could just be the compilation of NEGATIVE tips and feed back received from the community. 5. English spoken places: another community created and maintained list, could even be tied to the calendar to show english language events or meetings.I would be willing to offer my programming services for free to help develop such a site/community service. If there is interest, let me know and I can get started on a mock up of the outline above.
Left by Enzo on September 10th, 2006
I highly recommend the following dentist who is also particularly good with children:Dra Alicia MarcoPhone 2004124Cell 099792012 (check that number)Address;Abayuba 2781MontevideoShe speaks Spanish, English, French and Portuguese. She will see people in the early evening.
Left by Peter on September 10th, 2006
It is understandable to seek one’s own kind when moving to a new country. However there are definite drawbacks to doing so. Firstly, the average person seems to take about 15 months or more to grow out of the “When-we” syndrome. “When we were in Rhodesia…” “When we lived in Dallas….” “When we were in Oz we always did it this way…” Comforting, but I can assure you that it annoys the hosts in your new country. The when-we’ invariably change to the “You shoulds” especially if they are from the USA. “You should do so and so or you should get the government to do so-and-so.” I was in a restaurant in Pocitos when the conversation, (actually it was more a diatribe by a Northern Hemisphere lady at our table) went along those lines. Eventually one of the local gentlemen grew impatient and politely asked,”Don’t you think it would be easier for you to change than to expect 3 million people to change to suit you?” Try and get the notion out of your head that you can prosper by NOT speaking Spanish. You can get by on a daily basis with your English, but you will never be a part of the greater whole.I’m not crazy about the idea of language segregation, (especially for the taxi drivers). Perhaps a Spanish only taxi driver could interpret the little flags as grigoism. I don’t know. How difficult is it to say, “Teatro Solis por favor.”? I lived there for three months and not once did I have a problem with taxis, either from an honesty point of view or from a language point of view. Perhaps I should add that I spoke not one word of Spanish when I arrived. There are more crooked taxis right here in New Zealand than I encountered in Montevideo. Besides, most hotels have their selected taxi drivers. Try and talk to the taxi driver; he knows you are foreign. He may want to learn English and he will play a small part in your mastering of Spanish.I did not starve so I obviously got by in restaurants. Again, how difficult is it to learn “lomo”? Do you want plain water or carbonated water with your coffee. Sin gas or con gas…that is not very challenging is it! The more expensive or up market restaurants print their menus in Spanish and English. Perhaps I should mention that on the two or three occassions that I really encountered a situation where no English was spoken and the communication would be more complex, I was always happily surprised when someone in the public came foreward and said, “may I help you….?” Wonderful. Initially there were situations where my non-existent Spanish would have been a total no-no. Fortunately I had befriended a local dentist who speaks four languages; Spanish, English, French and Potuguese and I “hired” her services as my “cultural adviser and translator” when she had a spare hour or two to assist me at immigration, sorting out a local driving licence, talking to estate agents, getting an internet service …. When she co?ld not avail herself, then her eldest son came to my rescue and was delight
Left by Peter Rens on September 10th, 2006
A slight correction….she will see people during normal hours and will ALSO see you in the early evening if that would be more convenient.
Left by Peter on September 11th, 2006
Its always a good idea to have people with common interests communicate in a forum of some sort. You don’t have to participate if you don’t want to, but avoiding the mistakes of others has got to be a benefit. One thing this might lead to is a group visit focusing on immigration and relocation. No hype, “just the facts”.
Left by Tom Harding on September 11th, 2006
Dear Sir:I am at a complete loss as to how I can respond to this comment.The whole purpose of the Sociedad Southron was to help expats meet locals and to hasten their integration into Uruguayan society.The”English” Initiative was requested by the taxi drivers. They seeit as a way to increase their business and I was happy to provide afree web page and reservation service for them. This have been doneentirely pro bono publico.We are certainly not trying toconvert Uruguay into a English-speaking colony–as I recall, the UKtried that in the 1800s without success. What we are trying to do isto help Uruguay develop economically so young Uruguayans don’t have toexpatriate themselves to get a decent job.I believe the economic well-being of Uruguay is in everyone’s best interests. English helps achieve that because it is the world’s business language and everyone’s second language.Surely Uruguay’s culture is strong enough to survive a little more prosperity than it has?Now, please tell me where I have gone wrong so that I can make amends.The Southron
Left by The Southron on September 11th, 2006
Great idea. I am moving to Uruguay next week, and while I am not from an English-speaking country, my English is much better than my Spanish. Actually, my Spanish is worse than you can imagine. So I’ll keep an eye on your blog and if your Sociedad Southron idea will work - would you mind if a non-US non-UK guy will apply for membership? :)
Left by Alex on September 11th, 2006
It would be interesting to know the genesis of Peter’s stereotyping. Having read most every word on this site I find MOST contributors to be worldly, fairly well informed, intellectually curious and generally open minded. Meeting others with similar interests sounds like a terrific idea. You are certainly not obliged to participate if you find the idea distaseful. No one questioned the need to learn Spanish. Further, a once monthly gathering is unlikely to replace any and all other contacts. Friendships are inclusive, not divisive. But not to worry, if you don’t like the group then you likely shouldn’t participate. I will add that I am multi-lingual but welcome the opportunity to socialize with others who are sharing the same experiences. If it benefits someone else as well then so much the better. GO SOUTHRON!!
Left by Clara on September 11th, 2006
Clara, what ’stereotyping’? I don’t see any reference to not wanting to meet others in my previous note. I find it interesting that you are already displaying the ’should and shouldn’t” syndrome. Since there is no stereotyping there is no genesis. BTW I don’t necessarily want to meet people with similar interests; I want to meet people who are interesting and have diverse opinions. I would like to ask you how many times have you emmigrated and for how long have you lived in a new country? (Vacation trips do not qualify). Our family have emmigrated twice and are well aware of the upheavel caused by such a major move. In Raleigh NC my wife was chairperson of the expat group so I am not a total ignoramus on the subject nor do I find the idea ‘distasteful” as you put it. (Where did you get that from?) It was because of the experiences and the observations we made at that expat club that we declined to join a similar group here in New Zealand when we first arrived. Instead we got involved in local activities and joined local clubs such as the gliding club, the Society supporting Ballet etcetera. That worked well for us. Yes, we did meet fellow countrymen and some are regular friends but we also became friends with Kiwis, Germans, Chileans, South Africans, and an American couple.There is a mountain of research on why some people settle into new societies quicker than others do, and some of that research shows that those who break their ties with their cultural base in the early stages of their integration, adjust much better than those who hanker after the way things are back home. ..the when-we’s.
Left by Peter Rens on September 12th, 2006
Apropos the Bilingual Guardian Angel idea; what fees do you envisage?When in MTV I had a very well educated lady assist me with such things as estate agents, immigration, dealing with my consulate once I had left Uruguay, internet services etcetera. We settled on US@250 a day or $50 an hour plus expenses such as parking garage fees, petrol and of course lunch if we worked for the full day. Being higly educated and mature she was able to handle bureacrats with amazing dexterity! Would that be considered a reasonable fee?
Left by Peter on September 12th, 2006
Well let me jump in this pool. Though I have mixed feelings about getting too familiar with too many expats, as it can then becomes like a warm blanket and harder to face one’s own pathetic Spanish-speaking skills and improve them. That said, I am moving there this fall and reaaaalllly would appreciate an experienced guide who speaks my language that could help me avoid a major pickle (buying real estate or something major like that) or help me get out of that jar if I fall in too deep.So, Mr Southron, I am all for it! Your idea of forming such a group to help people integrate is brilliant. Thank you. And thanks again so very much for creating this site and maintaining it so well. My skeptical mother has even been reading it as well and now knows not only where Uruguay is but is even excited about me going there. Gloria
Left by Gloria on September 15th, 2006
Thank you kindly ma’am.
Left by The Southron on September 16th, 2006
May I recommend a lady who helped me do what was necessary. Highly educated, she speeks 4 languages and is mature enough to handle the odd diificult human very smoothly. I have her permission: Dr.Alicia MarcoPhone number; 2004142 MontevideoCell # 099 792012SKYPE; linfocytee-mail; bioloral@yahoo.com.ar Have a wonderful time Gloria, you won’t regret your move.
Left by Peter on September 18th, 2006
May a younger guy like myself join as well? I am 27, Chinese raised in Canada. Do you folks who live there think people like myself(non-caucasion) will be unwelcomed(by the rest of the country as well) as I was when I first arrived Canada?And again Southron. Thank you so much for this site. It really gives me a realistic feel of the country other than just fluff. I also want to thank everyone else who is participating here!There is another group I am in, it also is very useful even though it is not as active as this site. Here it is anyways, perhaps this will help propagate more information to everyone.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/uruguayforum/messages
Left by nepoez on September 18th, 2006
You are more than welcome to join. Anyone who is not a “pain in the neck and points South” is encouraged to participate. However, boorishness and bad manners will be relegated to the society of francophones….There is a small chinese community here and I have never heard or seen the slightest bit of racism from anyone here. It may be that the non-caucasian communities are so small that no one feels threatened by them, or, more probably, it is simply because Uruguayans are good people.
Left by The Southron on September 18th, 2006
This is a great idea and a great site, thanks so much for all the info. Personally i am hoping to live in Montevideo for approx 6 months each year, beginning early 2008, i would like to know if there are any plans for you to list any details regarding the hiring of maids and the costs involved, i would welcome a discussion, the pros/cons, live in or not, Eglish speaking or not and to hear any of your readers experiences, given my situation it may not work out to have a maid and only live in Montevideo for half the year but i would think that a lot of expats, retiring or chosing to start afresh with young families would appreciate some infomation on such a subject. Keep up the great work you have been doing and good luck, the new format for your site is very professional, bravo.
Left by THEREDSHAMROCK on October 7th, 2006
A great idea on a great site, thanks for all the info. Do you have any info on maids, hiring practices, english speaking/spanish speaking, live in or not, perhaps an exchange of experiences with your other readers.
=================
FROM THE SOUTHRON:
We chose to start by hiring a maid through an agency–that way they take care of all the government reports, filings, taxes, christmas and vacation payments and severance. Frankly we went through a series of people before we found one that is worked out. The cost was U$S2.10 hour. You will NOT find an English speaking maid here. I cannot speak to live in maid. This would be a good question for SociedadSouthron.net.
I ruge you to buy one book before you get here, our housekeeper is learning English from it.
“How To Communicate with Your Spanish Speaking Help  & Friends” by Liora Cohen (US$12.95). This spiral bound work book has phonetic pronunciations for both Spanish and English speakers. It is full of the REALLY important phrases like “please clean the bathroom” and “please bring me another beer”.
The Southron
Left by THEREDSHAMROCK on October 8th, 2006
Very interesting ideas. Thanks Southron for considering us “good people” and I agree with you: in the 14 or so years I had lived there, I never encountered “racism” though many of my friends thought it was probably due to the former reason you mentioned, a bit to our chagrin. I think the idea of a sort of Uruguayan “angie’s list” is a great thing to do. If my mother, who is retired there, has had a hard time finding good help–a very “hit or miss” kind of process–I can imagine others who’ve just arrived might also have difficulties in finding good tradespeople as well as professionals. Please let me know if I can help.
Left by gaberoo on December 12th, 2006