I am conflicted! I really have mixed feelings about this issue–which, for those who know me–will be a huge surprise. Tradtionally I have no opinion or a definite opinion…What do you Think?Two days ago I received an email from International Living in which they are promoting a Uruguay Real Estate Investment
and Relocation Conference in Montevideo in a little more than a week. For those who are interested, their web link is http://www.uruguay-conferences.com/.
MY PROBLEM IS THIS: is it a good idea to essentially encourage outsiders with lots of money to come into Uruguay and make a killing in the property market without establishing any enduring ties here whatsoever?
Isn't there a moral difference between people who see opportunites for themselves in Uruguay and want to move here and improve both themselves and the local economy and those who want to take the money and run?
Encouraging this kind of property grab certainly reminds this Southron of the Carpetbaggers. Further, it seems as if very little benefit will acrue locally. An additional downside could be a heating up of real estate driven inflation which will hurt everyone who actually lives here just to enhance the profits of some carpetbaggers.
WOW. That is as near to a left wing opinion as I have ever had. I am not calling for any governement action, but it sure doesn't sit well with me.
WHAT DO YOU THINK? I am certainly willing to be persuaded.
I have seen this conference posted before. I don’t know how many people attend these things. I heard the sponsor on NPR radio a couple months ago talking about the boon in people wanting to retire abroad, PR, DR, Europe, Argentina and Uruguay were featured. I guess it is good to get the information out to people interested in a better quality of life at a more affordable cost. The problem arises when 1 million americans move to Uruguay and negatively influence what seems to be a great place, both economically, politically and culturally. I don’t know how it is avoidable while still disclosing details about such a great place to live. Kind of a double edged sword, cutting both ways. I guess if you have the means available to capitalize on this situation of property ownership/rental/appreciation, you have enough money to take advantage of less riskier opportunties with just as much gain/reward.
Left by Enzo on August 12th, 2006
It’s always a problem when a place gets “discovered”, especially, I hate to say, by American speculators. I live in a placew in N California that was a cheap haven for artists and, yes, hippies, about 35 years ago. As is always the way, the place is now overrun with the wealthy, B&Bs, weekenders, second-homers and profiteers that buy and sell what used to be homes but are now just “properties”. A shack on wooden pilings now sells for a million US. It’s a real shame, it destroys local communities, but unavoidable I’m afraid, at least until the hammer of government and/or disaster and/or financial crash happens. That’s why I’ve been looking at Uruguay as a place to live and work. A place that isn’t a “target”, has no oil to wage war for, has a reasonable cost of living, open space and clean air. There are a lot of Americans looking for a place, not as an investment, but as an alternative. Along with those people will inevitably come the land sharks and opportunists. That’s the Northern way. I can’t think of a way to discourage it, other than political instability or hostility towards expats, neither of which will happen in Uruguay, I hope. Thanks for your really informative blog. And by the way, compared with the current breed of right-wingers here in the US, you’re a leftist! Get used to it!
Left by Paul on August 12th, 2006
Even though I have not been there yet I share your concern.I like Americans as individuals,for the most part, but can’t stand the government polices,and the mass concepts.I have seen what it does in Mexico and panama.I therefore admire many of the EU nations that have stuck to their values and culture. I hope that the locals can keep that alive,no matter what an influx has to offer. Just think of the French,Germans, and dutch. How would they respond to it.
Left by snowykarma on August 13th, 2006
Greetings, I have to agree with writer Paul, that when a place gets too popular, no onegoes there any more.(Yogi Berra). I would hope that international living is notjust pimping a money grab instead of encouraging folks to actually live there.Hope your treatments are successful. I am still looking forward to a visit inoct.’06. Contrary to speculators, i would live in and enjoy a small city, withBA. a ferry away. Best regards, Anthony
Left by ANTHONY on August 15th, 2006
Hi,Just wanted to say, and at the risk of being a hypocrite,?I would hate for this to happen to Uruguay but feel it is only a matter of time until it is discovered. Perhaps by then Uruguay will figure out a way to keep more of Uruguay for Uruguayans. Now, me the hypocrite says, I am planning to go there and check it out for these reasons myself.Only a matter of time.g
Left by Gloria on August 18th, 2006
I totally agree - I have seen just this in many other counties. Whereby the locals end up with very little. The Brokers (May be because he/she speaks both languages) and the buyers make a lot of money and local think thing are going to be better off. If the truth be known - the local should lease or rent the land for a long time (99 Years) then the family will still maintain ownership and and can release, sell or mover on the land later on in life. I am planing on mover to the are within two years and yes I will be living there - buy local products and using local to help me build, etc. - not just in and out to make a buck. If you can not bring something to the country that will help the locals and the country itself, then just take a vacation and leave you money this will help and put people to work serving you with their local products
Left by Steve Forbes on August 20th, 2006
i live in a small city( colonia) with b.a. a ferry away, if you are interesed in knowing more about colonia, my e mail address is josesande@adinet.com.uy
Left by jose sande on August 20th, 2006
I’m with Anthony in re to small town and B.A. just a ferryaway. My town is the outskirts of La Colonia. Concerning Int. Living, I don’t know but strongly feel they represent the worst aspects of all the above. The NYT carries their ads on-line, and its all about property investments (read speculation) with a secondary theme of cheap living and, to my mind, almost tawdry neo-colonialim with mention of servants, gardeners etc.I’m at the point where, call it selfish or no, I rarely share my enthusiasm for a place I have fallen in love with. Sort of the “secret fishing hole syndrome.” Been living in various parts of Mexico for over ten yrs. now, seen many changes, and plan to move to Uruguay next year.Regards to All,John
Left by John Patrick Moore on August 21st, 2006
Thank you sir. Perhaps I can visit your city one day soon.
Left by The Southron on August 22nd, 2006
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. See you here next year!
Left by The Southron on August 22nd, 2006
I visited Uruguay and then returned to live there for three months to get to know the country and its people a little better before deciding whether to retire there. I love Uruguay and the laissez faire attitude of its people. And therein lies the story; Americans, Kiwis, Aussies and many others have lived in nanny states so long that they are conditioned to think of how they can monitor and control others, but the arguments always seem to stem from their perspective. Is investment by foreigners really bad, even if they are only there for the ‘fast buck’? Consider this point of view; a dentist friend of mine who lives in Montevideo has a small cottage in Atlantida. She was prepared to sell it for US$30,000. I know she would not be offended if she was offered forty or fifty thousand in a year or two! She is now planning to build or buy additional properties. When she does that a whole food chain gets into action, from her architect through to the guy who takes the rubble away in his horse-drawn cart. How long will he take rubble away with his old horse drawn cart? Only a few years now before he buys his first truck. Will he be upset by the American or German investor? I doubt it. And on a slightly different note; I have observed that those Americans or South Africans etc who do uproot and move to better countries are also the better types of humans. Just my observation.Move to Uruguay and live a lovely life with lovely people.
Left by Peter on August 24th, 2006
Like you I have mixed feelings about International Living, I have subscribed to ther web site and payed them dues.In my search to find a great place to retire and they have provided me with a lot of good info. For typical gringo this is probably the safest way to invest. Note: I said invest!What really makes me mad is every time I research a country IL shows up and drives the prices up. I have spend a lot of time in MX,CR, Rotan, Hondruras, NIC, Belize, Panama and lived part time in a couple of these countries. They all have to much corruption and graft. I really enjoy your web site and intend to come to Uruaguy, just the fact that you could get basic services with out the hassel we experienced in Costa Rica speaks volumns for the country.PS: Do you Know Ben Brown in Costa Rica? he is a Southron from LA.
Left by Robert Vogt on August 24th, 2006
I am so encouraged by the good experiences in Uruguay the responders have shared. Can any responders direct me to realtors with property listed at $40,000 or less? On the internet I keep seeing listings only millionaires can afford.
Left by Sheila Beers on August 25th, 2006
No I do not think it is a good idea. Here is my acidic opinion. I believe International Living to be detrimental to any country they latch onto. Bill Bonner (owner, Agora Publishing, IL’S parent company)and his ilk are information peddlers. They also publish many investment newsletters that cater to (whether they mean to or not) the “get rich quick… or with very little work” mentality. They are just lining their pockets by purporting to help others to a better life overseas. They cut deals with local developers and inflate the areas prices to sell to investors and transplants. They drive prices up then brag about how when they first suggested an area it was so much more affordable. They are the catalyst that makes a place less affordable a year or two later. If people need IL’s help then they should just stay home. The type of spirit that moves well in foreign circles does not need this type of help. Exporting the worst of American values is eroding the countries of the worlds uniqueness. What happened to the pioneer who was able to go it on his own? America and her people have lost their way.You better hope they don’t try to find it in Uruquay. Ugly American stay home
Left by Andrew Bowey on August 25th, 2006
The folowing real estate links from “The Southron’s UY Links” are pretty extensive. The first is sort of a multiple listing service, the rest of from indiviual companies.Please remember, that often the best deals do no make it to the internet.You will usually have three search choices: Venta-For Sale, A. Anual-Yearly Rentals and A. Temp-Monthly rentals.CASAS.com.uy - Casas, chalets, todas con fotos, venta, alquiler, Montevideo, Punta del Este, toda la costa de UruguayThis is the House site, it also links to sites for Apartments, vacant lots, and farms. Inmobiliaria Lucia del Castillo intermedio Santestevan Inmobiliaria Cristina Ottonello Pilar Quartino Propiedades Arbeleche Bessonart & Asociados
Left by The Southron on August 25th, 2006
My wife and I are coming to Uruguay for a two week visit in November. We have just discovered your website. We are quite interested in continuing to read these comments and replies. We discovered Escape Artist and subsequently you through IL. For that we are thankful, but we did not like to hear about the conference they staged in Uruguay. We agree with other writers that their motivation is real estate sales. We want to live in the Uruguay we are reading about. Our trip is one of discovery, which we expect to be just a prelude to our relocation there. Maybe we can even meet you in November.
Left by Syd Blackwell on August 27th, 2006
I would like to thank Andrew Bowey for his succinct comments, (very well said).I’m afraid that we will shortly see similar IL activity in Uruguay, maybe the remoteness will help to make it slower to take hold.If someone has this concern, one option would be to ask any Realtor, agent etc. if they have a relationship with IL, if so walk away.Before you make a decision,do more leg work,check out the prices with other agents, it may be more prudent to pay an interpreter than pay an inflated price.Once again, thank you Andrew for voicing what many of us out there think.It would appear the only thing sacred all too often is the $.Adrian.
Left by Adrian on August 27th, 2006
Damn! Mr. Andrew Bowery says IL is part of that Agora publishing b/s??? I shoulda known. Escape Artist seems to have a lot less personalized articles and a lot more real-estate hustles.No offense to those people from California–necessarily–but they and IL have driven up prices here in Panama like you would not imagine. Agora is a vaguely sleazy outfit and not to be trusted so that tells me what I need to know about IL and any “conference” they want to peddle. I’m certainly with John Patrick Moore when he says that he doesn’t “talk the place up” if he likes it. I just quietly disappeared and went “offline” after awhile in Panama. Moore is a good writer with his comments about “tawdry neo-colonialism” well taken And I’m tired of Gringos (like me) coming here and just paying any price that’s asked for something. All they are doing is making it harder for the local Panamanians to afford stuff. I also like what Steve Forbes had to say about bringing something that will help the locals. I did it and I’m glad.The truth is, though that P?ter has a point too. People are gonna make a profit when the chance comes. And Gloria is right, it’s just a matter of time. I watched it here in Panama and it’ll happen in Uruguay.And yeah, LEARN SPANISH, (oops, sorry to shout).Rock
Left by rock995 on September 7th, 2006
Believe it or not, we are relocating to Uruguay without ever having heard of the distasteful IL prior to this site. I have the notion that anyone who is truly interested in a location would research it realistically, that is minus the promotors’s hype. This would involve visiting in various seasons and staying a while in somewhere other than a full service hotel. If avarice is the motivation for an international move then one would be best served to stay put. There are many other ways to invest without spoiling the area for those whose homeland you have arbitrarily ‘invaded’.As for government involvement, without some government we would, of course have anarchy. One person’s Nanny State is insufficient government for another. One is certainly free to choose, vote, fight for changes etc. No-one is dragging you here, or anywhere else, kicking and screaming, against your will. Even International Living only promotes a location. They do not coerce you—well maybe a little.
Left by Clara on September 7th, 2006
Nice clear thinking Clara.At the risk of beating an already dead horse, I think cultural differences will also affect our view of what comprises a nanny state versus robust freedom. The one thing I think on which we can all agree is that we do not want a police state…no matter what the excuse.The Southron
Left by The Southron on September 7th, 2006
Hearing these things certainly sent chills down my spine. However I believe that ignorance may be on our side this time. Try telling any Norteamericanos you know, that you plan to move to Uruguay and they will respond:Where?why?!?Places like Mexico, Panama and Costa Rica have already been implanted in most of those people’s heads as places that are ‘livable’. It will most likely take a much longer time for them to realize that people do exist in other continents other than North America. This is good for us!
Left by nepoez on September 16th, 2006